Winnetou and Old Firehand (1966) User Reviews (8)

Old Firehand-Cameron and Winnetou-Brice battle bandits who have surrounded a Mexican small town

[ma-cortes · 5/10 · 19 September 2011]

¨Winnetou und sein Freund Old Firehand ¨(original title) is a thrilling and moving story about Old Firehand and Winnetou , respectively performed by Rod Cameron and Pierre Brice. This is an entertaining but mediocre film based on Karl May trilogy novels , it starts with Old Firehand in an exciting opening sequence when he rides onto the screen and soon rescues a group led by Winnetou attacked by bandits commanded by Silers (Harald Leipnitz) . On the way Old Surehand and Old Wabble are involved in the running conflict between outlaws and Mexican villagers who have taken prisoner the Siler's brother . Old Surehand can count on the support of his new friend Winnetou, the amiable chief of the Apaches . Later on , the bandits raid the village and a Mexican old man goes out as peacemaker but he's treacherously murdered . Old Firehand, Winnetou , Tom (Todd Armstrong)and others protect the Mexican village from a gang of bandits who use dynamite , bombs and treason to defeat them . There is also an Officer (Rick Battaglia) from the Army helping the besieged village . There's an emotional love story between Tom and Winnetou's sister named Nscho-Tschi (Marie Versini) . Firehand set on pursuit of the bandits and prepares them a trap . Old Firehand and his faithful new friend Old Wabble are on the trail of the cold-blooded killer and another band of nasty Mexicans .

This is a passable episode about one of the series of popular German made Western , featuring the duo formed by valiant ¨Old Firehand¨ and immortal ¨Winnetou¨ , they repeat their same noted roles as dignified as always . This enjoyable saga benefits from sensational adventures , shootouts , explosions , larger-than-life characters and spectacular scenarios shot in Atelier, Spandau, Berlin, Germany ,Solin, Split, Croatia ,Strobec, Split, Croatia ,Vrlika, Yugoslavia . Here Winnetou-Pierre Brice plays a secondary role , chemistry between stuffy Cameron and Brice is inexistent . However , in the films starred by Stewart Granger the enjoyable relationship is quite match , Granger scores especially high marks ,as he plays with mirth and liking manner . Stewart Granger took the role in two occasions , ¨Among vultures¨ and ¨Winnetou and Surehand¨ and Pierre Brice starred all the series and he went on filming television episodes .His predecessor was the serious Lex Barker who starred a diverse character but the roles are pretty similar , he played the most part of series : ¨Apache gold(1963)¨ by Harald Reinl, ¨Apaches last Battle(1964)¨ by Hugo Fregonese, ¨Last of renegades(1964)¨, ¨The desperate trail¨, ¨Old Surehand¨ (1965) also directed by Alfred Vohrer ¨Old Shatterland(1966)¨ by Harald Philipp, ¨In the valley of death(1968)¨ by Harald Reinl , besides Rod Cameron starred only one : this ¨Old Firehand¨ . The film displays a colorful cinematography and a catching musical score ,though excessive synthesizer , by Peter Thomas replacing the usual series , Martin Bottcher . The motion picture produced by Rialto Productions is regularly directed by Alfred Vohrer who directed various Karl May titles , besides he was a German thriller expert called Krimi ( Edward Wallace adaptation ) . Rating : 5 , average though in some moment here and there is entertaining .

"We're as free as the wind and just as strong."

[classicsoncall · 5/10 · 26 February 2016]

It's only from reading other reviewers here that I've become aware of a series of films featuring the character of Winnetou as a principal with actor Pierre Brice in the lead role. Though this is titled "Winnetou and Old Firehand", I caught it on the Encore Western Channel as "Thunder at the Border", and it seemed to me that the Apache Chief was merely an ancillary character. Actually, he and his sister Nscho-tschi (Marie Versini) almost seemed out of place in the story to me, appearing as if they had just stepped off an Indian fashion runway while the rest of the cast was suitably attired for the Mexican desert.

Regarding Old Firehand, that would have been actor Rod Cameron using yet another name, Jason Waade, a fur trapper sidelined in a Mexican village about to come under attack by an outlaw who's brother winds up dead after killing a villager in a card game. Quite coincidentally, Waade's old flame (firehand/flame?) Michelle (Nadia Gray) resides in the village along with their son who Waade never knew. This is all quite comical actually, as Waade offers enough hints for the viewer to figure things out, but young Tom (Todd Armstrong) is quite clueless. Going by 'Jace', he can't seem to figure out that they both have the same first name, even after Waade reveals that he knows his mother and knows how old the boy is.

At least there's a fairly intriguing element introduced in the story when the bandido Silers (Harald Leipnitz) sends a Mexican wagon train back to town planted with explosives. They're set off in a fiery display that provides about the most excitement the film has to offer.

With the eventual reconciliation between Waade and Michelle, Tom/Jace finally makes the connection, while proceeding to help the villagers defeat Silers' bunch. Now I don't know about you, but it sure seemed to me that Silers had a smile on his face when Old Firehand put him away with the second arrow. It was as if he signaled his pleasure to get things over with while the good guys had to stick around to mop things up.

An odd German western, not without interest

[audiemurph · 5/10 · 1 July 2015]

There is no question that this film is a wreck. But, like a wreck, it is not without interest. For one thing, the pace is good, the dialogue sometimes odd and not any more clichéd than any other Western of the era, and, happily, unlike too many international Westerns, has an easy plot to follow.

And it has some interesting characters. Most unusual and self-contradictory is the English army man (played by Victor de Kowa), who acts like a highly affectatious Monty-Pythonesque old poof (and he walks really weird), but he wants to marry the boy Jace's mother; bragging like Baron Munchausen, he turns out to actually be a good shot. A difficult character to figure out.

Rod Cameron is not unappealing as the easily-smiling hero; the main attribute of the kid playing his son is that he looks like David Spade. Cameron's main side-kick is the amiably over-weight Vladimir Medov, anticipating Lee Van Cleef's amiable chubby side-kick in "Sabata" by three years.

But Pierre Brice's Winnetao, to me, seems completely out of place; I get that this actor and character starred in a series of films, but his role was a relatively unimportant one here, and it was hard for me to get over Winnatao and his sister romping through the west in leather jump suits and tennis shoes. Ridiculous, actually.

And there are too many flaws of logic to overlook as well. In the first 10 minutes, for example, we are treated to one of the worst cases of "how many bad guys do we have to kill before their number starts to decrease" that I have ever seen. Specifically, in the opening battle, I counted 13 of Silers' men attacking Cameron and the Indians. The good guys kill 9 of them off their horses. 8 of the bad guys ride up to the ledge for closer combat. Two more are shot to death, and 7 ride back after withdrawing. Yikes!

I also scratched my head in confusion in the later sequence in which Silers and Sanchez together first attack the town defended by Cameron. The defenders "trap" them in a ring of fire that looks to be no more than 8 inches high. Terrified, the bad guys retreat. Was the 8 inches of fire that great an obstacle?

On the other hand, the movie treats us to more religious imagery, treated with genuine reverence, than we are wont to see in typical spaghetti Westerns (or any Westerns, for that matter). The scene in which the priest holds up a gold crucifix in the face of the invading outlaws, momentarily stopping them in their tracks, is affecting and oddly pleasing. One image of him, shot from below and in front of him, is very well done, as his arms, holding the cross above his head, frame a perfect Byzantine-style halo around his head. A good moment for the camera-man.

A lost opportunity for a truly horrifying moment was the interesting scene in which a parade of dead peasants in their wagons slowly ride back into town. The director opted here for the suggestion of horror, when I think a more graphic display of the many murdered men sitting upright in the wagons would have been more effective.

This isn't the worst Western by any means, and is odd enough to just perhaps merit your attention for its long 98 minute run-time.

Worst Winnetou Movie of the 60's!

[lostinaction · 2/10 · 23 March 2008]

The Moviemaker tried to make a Combination of the Winnetou Movies and the successful Spaghetti-Western. It didn't work well and there are several reasons why. First the Story wasn't made for Winnetou. We will never find out what Winnetou and his sister are really doing in this Mexico. It's obvious that they wrote his part into the Movie. The same is with his sister Nscho-Tsi, played by the beautiful actress Marie Versini. To give her some reason to be in the movie, the scriptwriter developed a Love Story. But the Love Story also doesn't work. After Lex Barker as Old Shatterhand and Stewart Granger as Old Surehand, you find a new hero next to Winnetou: Old Firehand. Old Firehand is played by Rod Cameron. There is no good Chemistry between Winnetou and Old Firehand. Maybe his second name is Old Sweathead because he is wearing a fur cap which he never takes off in hot sunny Mexico. Some elements seem to be taken from the magnificent 7. Old Firehand, Winnetou and others protects a Mexican Village from a gang of bandits. The public never really find out why, because there is also an Officer from the Army in the town. So why they just don't ask the army for help? There are many plot holes in this movie and you'll find bad scripted characters. One guy is an Englishman (or Scottish) Gentleman, and there you can find a good example of bad overacting on a bad scripted figure.

There are many things which a viewer can complain on this movie, but the only good about it: watching Marie Versini as Winnetou's sister and Winnetou himself Pierre Price. In my opinion it is the worst Winnetou Western and maybe the worst Karl May Movie ever.

Mostly forgettable

[unbrokenmetal · 3/10 · 11 February 2007]

Winnetou (Pierre Brice) and his sister Nscho-tschi (Marie Versini) meet Old Firehand (Rod Cameron) and protect a Mexican town against bandits. In a time when the popularity of the series faded, even the return of Marie Versini didn't help much. Rod Cameron was the star of a Karl May western for the first and last time. He didn't appeal one tenth as much to the kids as his predecessor Lex Barker as Old Shatterhand had done. The affected manners of Viktor de Kowa as Ravenhurst did not make him another Castlepool (Eddi Aren't in „Winnetou II"). Besides, the Mexican setting took the movie one step closer to the cynical spaghetti westerns of the late 60s, far away from the myth-making „Silver Lake". Instead of Martin Böttcher, Peter Thomas of Edgar Wallace and „Raumpatrouille" fame composed the music, but this is clearly not his preferred genre. Almost nothing turns out right in this movie - mostly forgettable. Winnetou would return one more time for "Valley of Death", nevertheless.

The bogus Winnetou gets trapped in a town's destruction.....

[ccmiller1492 · 3/10 · 13 September 2009]

Winnetou (Pierre Brice) on an errand of justice, gets trapped in a town being besieged and destroyed for revenge by a maniac outlaw's gang. Other than that, Winnetou is merely an afterthought among a sprawling plot of the doings of myriad characters, none of whom make much of an impression except for a surprising Todd Armstrong who is more credible here as "Tom" than he was as "Jason" with the Argonauts. Rod Cameron tries hard but has little presence but not much can really be expected when Winnetou, supposedly an Apache, is always got up more like a Cheyenne or Sioux and lives in a "pueblo" like a Navajo. Hollywood Indians are sometimes just as bogus, but European Indians are always bad. One of the "teepees" in the previous film looked like a circus tent.

New friends - old problems

[Horst_In_Translation · 4/10 · 30 June 2016]

"Winnetou und sein Freund Old Firehand" or "Thunder at the Border" is a West German & Yugoslavian co-production from 1966 that resulted in a German-language western film. It has its 50th anniversary this year and it is in color. Here we have another of the uncountable Karl May western films from Germany from the 1960s. The title including Winnetou is of course a giveaway. However, do not believe what you are told. These 90 minutes are one of the later installments from the Winnetou series, but actually this is not really a Winnetou film anymore. Pierre Brice's character is almost non-existent for the entire movie, only appears very briefly on several occasions. What still links this film to the Winnetou series is that many actors are in here that appeared in other Winnetou films such as Marie Versini or Rik Battaglia, who is fun to watch as always, but kind of wasted as one of the good guys this time. The antagonists were really boring and the heroes, such as Old Firehand weren't really more interesting either. You cannot blame them though. Obviously the people who made this film, such as director Alfred Vohrer, wanted to make as much cash as possible because the previous Winnetou films were huge commercial successes and this also explains the use of Brice's character in the name. Now I personally think Brice is not a good actor at all, so it may have been a chance to make a good film with him absent most of the time, but the plot and story are just way too weak. Luckily, the film is not as long as some of the other Karl May movies, but even at 1.5 hours, it dragged on several occasions. This film should have been when the Winnetou franchise really should have ended, but sadly there was still one (others may say two) more films to come. I do not recommend the watch. Go for something else.

Quite good and interesting spaghetti western

[talivcirx · 9/10 · 8 December 2015]

I don't understand these negative reviews. No doubts, "Winnetou and Firehand" isn't very great masterpiece like Sergio Leone's "Once upon time in the West", but it's interesting, dynamic action with very effective battle scenes, with splendid soundtrack by Peter Thomas - one of the greatest music in movies about native Americans '(like Trevor Jone's - "The Last of the mohicans", 1992, and Martin Bottcher's - other Winnetou films). Alfred's Vohrer's direction is energetic. photographs of Croatian landscape is impressive. The cast is professional, characters are well characterized. Especially I like beautiful, romantic brother and sister - Pierre's Brice's Winnetou and Marie Versini's Nscho-tschi, Nadia Gray as Michelle (convincing drama of lonely woman), Harald Leipnitz as fanatic avenger Silers, Aleksander Gavric as Derks. The humor and seriousness are well balanced in this film. It's pleasant to see it. To my mind, one of the best movies about Winnetou.