Barack Obama’s now-famous “crowd size” joke at the DNC the other night? The words themselves might have been expected by his speechwriters, but the leave-nothing-to-the-imagination hand gesture was a surprise. And all Obama.

Jon Favreau, Obama’s former White House director of speechwriting who assisted in the crafting of the DNC speech, reiterated on CNN today what he says during the latest episode of his podcast Pod Save America: Obama’s hand gesture, sizing up Donald Trump, wasn’t scripted.

Obama’s full DNC quote about Trump: “Here’s a 78-year-old billionaire who has not stopped whining about his problems since he rode down his golden escalator nine years ago. It has been a constant stream of gripes and grievances that’s actually getting worse now that he’s afraid of losing to Kamala. There’s the childish nicknames, the crazy conspiracy theories, this weird obsession with crowd sizes.